Doubting Brother: Thanks and No worries. Recently I have gone back to see experiences of people like yourself when they post. It makes things interesting and encouraging to see details of what others go thru.
Make Lemonade
JoinedPosts by Make Lemonade
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
Open mind: My meat thermometer says Pork should be 185. No wonder it was so hard to reach that temperature. New thermometer for sure. My wife has told me several times not to go by the temperature. Just go by the time and see what the pork chops look like. I did bend the spatula a little getting them out of the pan LOL. If the spatula did not work there was back up. I bought the tool I mentioned earlier. It is a called a roto-hammer. You can drill and chisel concrete with it. I would have been able to get those pork chops out with that puppy. The best thing you have done is give my wife something to laugh about when she reads this. Good job and thanks
Aunt Fancy: You have a good idea for a book. How to make it interesting to the non JW community would take skill. Also, have you read any of the testimony from the Compos case? It was hard for me to read it all at once. I am sure there are parts that I have not read to this day (I did read enough to bring it up in my deposition ). The actual abuse at times is just over the top bad. The part about it happening during prayer on a Bible study. I just stopped reading about the case for several days. Just did not want to go there. It kind of creeps me out a little thinking about an entire book on the subject. The author would have to put something practicle and useful into it. Like why and how a professional does things differently than the elders have done. In the Conti case you see a contrast between the elders and the authorities. Abrahamson and Clarke do their shepherding call with Andrea, Evelyn, and Jonathan. Then Andrea is interviewed in the hospital by a dectective and social worker. Big difference in the results for sure. The chapter tiltle could be "What not to do verses, what is helpful". The elders (and the direction from the service department to handle the matter as "uncleanness".) in Andrea's (Kindrick) case could be the example of what not to do.
A chapter on how the elders could make sure the victim reports the abuse to the authorities. Maybe the book could say, "elders can offer to take the victim and family to the police station to make reporting easier (sorry, I laughed when I said to myself: "this book just went into the fantasy section") How about a chapter titled: Working with the authorities in harmony with Romans 13? In this chapter practicle ways for the elders to cooperate with different branches of government. Include parole officers, detectives, social workers, district attornies, therepists, and any other agency. In the conclusion this sentence appears: "Lets all pray about how as a community we can take these ideas to heart. By applying these loving suggestion from the Governing Body we can be asured that abuse victims will receire the best help possible. This will certainly bring honor to Jehovah's name and organization". Never mind that sentence should go into the Watchtower and BOE letters.
Well it is hard to write a book to a large audience without wanting to include the details on how things can improve. We will have to work on that.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
It is not my intention to put pressure on anyone in their course to exit Jehovah's Witness religion. That is a personal matter that each individual has to work out and then carry the responsibility for their actions. Also, no one else is in the exact position that we are in at this time. Since my views have been so radically changed from who I was in the past to who I am today, I have to recognize that I am a work in progress. Perhaps this thought will better comunicate what I mean: "the light gets brighter as the day draws near". Not applying this to the governing body, but to all our individual journeys thru life. I make the above comments, because I have observed that if I am perceived as "preaching" the benefit of the facts are lost. We want people to be informed of what happened so they can "carry their own load".
Myself and others who are on this journey with me have put years into coming to grips with the facts. Legal, spiritual, scientific, etc. research is on going. Our view of behind the curtain is quite detailed because of our circumstances. For example: we received a subpoena from the N.Y. corp. of Jehovah's Witnesses. You have to admit that is a game changer. We did not have a master plan. It just happened and we simply responded to the events. One day at a time until we are now disfellowshipped and labeled "mentally deseased", "sly", "cunning", and more ( I would like to ask those responsible for these labels, Really?) We are thinking that the actions by the legal, service, and local elders, display a fear of what we know, rather than a desire to protect the flock. One fact we will hope to get out to the public is the way the shepherds treated all of as when we were sheep. Those facts certainly will back up our perception of their "pertectionism", "self-serving methods", and compartmentalism. This really comes into focus when you add the perspective of contempory court cases and changing new light. Very educational to cut thru the organizations public face and see the behind the scenes events.
We have been made fully aware of the concequences of going public. These are some of the warnings from a professional in the trade, "you could find out there are even hidden consequences". "You might not like the story we tell". "We could spend hours filming and only include seconds of the interview".
My family and friends have been under pressure for so long, we can compare ourselves to of a deep sea diver that has to surface slowly to prevent an embolism or a case of the bends. However, the pressure from not going public is greater than keeping it to ourselves. We have taken our time by talking to those we needed to. Family, friends, lawyers, and elders. We had a list and completed it in a balanced and timely manner. Gently, firm, and loving. Those who decided to be loyal to the organization said so. We acknowledged their position, but demanded our dignity in return. Many of our good byes were made with mutual respect (quite different from the garbage that these elders said from the platform. Bullying, to be sure). Simply put we recognize that the potential benefits of going public outweigh the consequences. Be warned elders and leadership. We are hopeing to make a difference. We are hopeing to help future victims avoid the pain you cause to your sheep. We are not alone by any means. We know you are aware. We urge you to take the high road. Free those you hold in intellectual prison. That would be so good for eveyone concerned.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
There was another person disfellowshipped because of the case we are involved in. It is clear that anyone who knows about what happened is perceived as a threat. The society acts in a predictable way. In our case three elders were moved in to deal with the mess created by the legal department. These elders have "hooks in their jaws". We know what they have to do and how they will do it. The most recent disfellowshipping was an act of oppresion upon a righteous person. This is how the "Watchtower dog hunts" to be sure.
I earlier in this post used a Star Wars quote: "The more you tighten your fist, the more will slip thru your fingers". Those words are coming true more and more. Witnesses who have seen for themselves how the elders have and are responding to the direction of the legal and service departments, are more and more wanting to separate from the oppression. More are wanting to share their story. This is in a vicous circle now. It could end with the removal of all who can not live with the wrongdoing and cover up.
Universally people respond to oppression. The internet is allowing individuals to share their stories. As more and more stories are told a clearer picture of the underhanded methods are being brought out in the open. More and more people describe the emotional pain that results from being a member of Jehovah's Witnesses. It is incredibly painful to go thru this process. I will return to explain why myself and a growing number are wanting to go public.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
jgnat: What you described in your work situation is difficult to deal with. I am sure that you could add more details that would allow us to have even more understand of how you feel. Also thanks for sharing the way you are handling the problem. I can see managing and coping skills. Nothing wrong with getting mad about what happened. I would like to know more about how you "got logical". Sounds like you found a solution that could help others with problems at work. My wife came home yesterday with her ongoing episodes with a difficult personality. She has always found a way to cope, but this personality is stubborn. Many times even the questions infer and assume untrue conclusions.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
truthseekeriam: My wife will be home from work very soon. She will love to read what you have said. Thanks for saying what you did.
Stealth: Perhaps there are many more witnesses that would change their minds if the true facts could reach them. We all understand the thinking that does not allow the facts to penetrate the mindset. I admit it took a lot to allow me to see the real watchtower.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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-
Make Lemonade
jgnat: I appreciate what you do. You should know that people are listening when you speak.
Aunt Fancy: That is good to hear. You are so right to say that it is a help to have the support of your mate. Slowing down to let your loved ones catch up is a noble thing to do.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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-
Make Lemonade
jgnat: how do you do that? Very funny. The point is what , when , how does anyone say something that will not just be blah...blah....blah. Our family and friends did have an experience that means something. Perhaps the witnesses will still only hear blah..blah..blah when we share it. That is O.K. with us. At least we tried when it was our turn a bat. We might be like "the mighty casey" or we could hit one out of the park. No matter what happens we will not be guilty of doing nothing. Casey struck out, but he was there to do his best.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
-
-
Make Lemonade
whathappened: Thanks. I must have been posting while you commented.
missfit brought up: any updates?, and taking a righteous stand.
There are a lot of things going on. If we get our wish you could be hearing something in the future. If the watchtower "pulls a rabbit out of their hat" then maybe not as much, but we all can hope. The resolve around this neck of the woods is to do something rather than nothing. If we can share our expeirences then the Watchtower will be embarrassed. Will this have a big impact? Who is to say. We just have to try no matter what.
When my wife and I read your comment about a righteous stand we talked about it. She is taking a righteous stand herself. My wife is experiencing the cost of doing the right thing. This is what I wanted to comment on since this morning. When you look at all the people who acted in harmony with their conscience it is inspiring. My wife, Manuella Dorman, my daughter in law, are all people doing the right thing and paying a price for it. My wife and I see the same resolve in so many people. Ones we talk to face to face and those who come on here and tell their story. Those who post videos, write books, give testimony in court, and others.
Some people have just been able to see more behind the curtain than others. That just means that those who have seen more, should be the ones who do more. It is just a matter of chance. Being in the wrong place at the right time or right place in the wrong time. What one does to satisfy his conscience is not always what someone else should do or can do. Any way, that is the way we see it at this time. We are not going back. We are no longer looking for the "spiritual man". That ship has sailed a long time ago. You elders who know who I am, and know the truth, and are doing nothing. Well, let me ask you this: Do you have freeness of speech? I am not addressing elders who I do not personally know. I am speaking directly to the elders who I looked in the eye and talked to.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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-
Make Lemonade
jgnat: as usual a great point. Humans have a lot of unspocken comunication. Think Gang colors, signs, tatoos, etc.. If you think about it witnesses have a lot of unspocken rules. What is submission, brazen, loyalty, etc.. Each trade union has their loyalty. On the construction site you pick that up right away. One time I brought my very small construction equipment to a witness project. Right away the jokes about the "size" of my "equipment" were being made. Well the way I was able to get the job done saved the project a costly delay. At the time the cost per day was $7,000. Most of the time you can handle lack of respect by just getting the job done. No words just actions.
What causes me the most distress is saying or doing something that will cost someone else a great deal. To accidentaly reveal a detail that allows the elders to D.F. someone else. It is a constant concern that I am still dealing with. I am going to say and do more about my experience. I am also sure that the elders know exactly who I am on here. That is no problem to me personally. In fact they should worry about what I plan to say. It is the others in the truth who want to leave, but are also trying to save their loved ones. Tough problem for all of us. Say to much and it causes pain. Say to little and it causes pain.